You can also listen to the audio on Acast

Soraya Abdel-Hadi is the founder of All the Elements, a community working to increase diversity in the UK outdoors and she is also a contemporary female adventurer. There are large segments of our population who are underrepresented, under promoted and under supported in our outdoor spaces, but there are also individuals, community groups and organisations working to create change and All the Elements is their community.

In 2014, Soraya left her career as an equestrian journalist to study sustainability for business, achieving a One Planet MBA, and since then has worked in roles and projects to create social and environmental change, including founding All the Elements and taking part in expeditions all over the world. Soraya is also the Operations Manager for eXXpedition, a not-for-profit organisation which runs pioneering all-female sailing research expeditions to investigate the causes and solutions of ocean plastic pollution.

Talking points include:

• Where does an adventurous spirit come from

• Soraya’s adventure experiences

• Intrinsic and extrinsic motivations

• Career changes and having a purpose

• Studying sustainability in business- One Planet MBA

• The importance of role modelling and amplifying women

• How and why she founded All the Elements

• Challenges and the creativity behind setting up All the Elements

• How do we increase diversity outdoors?

• eXXpedition – all-female sailing research expeditions looking at ocean plastic pollution

Take a look at All the Elements and eXXpedition.

You can also find Soraya on Instagram and on her website.

Transcript

Karla: Hello and welcome to the women's edition, where women share their stories, experiences and challenges. I'm Karla, and each week, I share conversations with women who inform and inspire. We hear the lessons they've learned, their thoughts on social issues and what we can all learn from women's lived experiences. 

Hello and welcome to this week's podcast. In this episode, I talk to Soraya Abdul Hadi while I was doing research for this series on contemporary female adventurers. It struck me that in the mainstream, there's rarely diversity in adventure. So while doing some research, I happened upon a site called All the Elements, which is a community working to increase diversity in the UK outdoors. It had loads of resources, it had a directory, it had news events. There's just so much on it. And I thought, blimey, he founded this, and that's how I came upon Soraya. She's the founder of all the elements, and she is a contemporary female adventurer who's on a mission to increase diversity in the UK outdoors. There are large segments of our population who are underrepresented, under promoted and under supported in our outdoor spaces, but there's also individuals, community groups and organisations working to create change and All the Elements is their community. 

In 2014 Soraya left her career as an equestrian journalist to study sustainability for business, achieving a one planet MBA. And since then, she has worked in roles and projects to create social and environmental change, including founding all the elements and taking part in expeditions all over the world. So Ray is also the operations manager for X expedition, which is a non profit organization which runs pioneering all female sailing research expeditions to investigate the causes and solutions of ocean plastic pollution. We had such a good conversation. Here she is. I wanted to start by asking, Where do you think your adventurous spirit comes from?

Soraya: It's a great question. I actually have been thinking about this quite a lot recently, because I did an interview for a researcher called Jo, and she kind of delved into what activities I took part in in my childhood. I realised that I'd done much more adventurous things for a child. So I was in the guides. My favorite thing about being in the guides was when we got to go out into the local woods, and we got given these tasks, which I don't, I don't even know if you'd be allowed to do this sort of thing anymore, because we were all very loosely supervised, and just got sent out into the woods and had to, like, chase each other. And it was getting dark, because obviously guides are in the evening. We were playing a version of, I guess, a version of capture the flag, but it involved fish and a and a, not actual live fish. It involved paper fish and a tin, and you had to get all of the fish into the tin without the other team finding you anyway, that just sticks in my mind as one of the activities. But I just love that sort of thing. It always felt like taking on a challenge and being adventurous.

And I've never been the person who dreamed of a wedding and getting married. I never really saw that when I was a child as like the future and my life, I remember when I was really young, climbing, pretending I was climbing up a mountain to go and rescue somebody. And I think about that now, and I think, Okay, that was maybe a bit weird, but always loved adventure stories, and the kind of traditional kids adventure stories like the Famous Five, and I think some of it does tie back into how I was brought up, obviously, because I was encouraged to do all sorts of different activities. And on my mum's side of the family, I was always spending a lot of time outside, but on my dad's side of the family. So my mom is white, British, and my dad is black, Sudanese. So I grew up in an environment where my dad was traveling a lot, and he would always be coming back from different countries and telling us about different countries and bringing back different kind of presence, which now I look at them, and I'm like, Oh yeah, look at the the tourist present that he brought back. But when you were a kid, you're like, oh my god, amazing. And he did bring back some pretty cool things. And so I also wonder how much of that influenced me. I like this idea that the world is a really big place, and you can go and do all these different things in different places. And he would travel to countries in Africa, but he would also come back from Moscow and tell us about how he'd stepped out of a taxi and got absolutely soaked because he'd stepped into a freezing cold puddle and things like that.

Karla: Could you talk to me about your adventures? I'm really interested in your experiences with nature, because I read a few of your blogs, and yeah, that really sparked my interest. 

Soraya: So my first adventure as me on my own, going and deciding to do it, was actually one of the most unsustainable things that I could possibly do, which is actually kind of ironic, considering that I'm known for sustainability. Was going to a party in the Sahara desert for about, it's about four was, I think in the end, ended up being about seven days, because I went with a group of strangers to go and stay in the mountains afterwards as well. But it came up because I'm in a book club, rebel Book Club, which is now a huge thing, and when I went on this journey, it was still really small, and it was still at the beginning of it. And I went with a group of people who I didn't really know. I'd met maybe once. We organized accommodation and sharing things together, went and camped in the Sahara Desert. I discovered it's actually really cold camping in the Sahara Desert, which is not at all what I was expecting. And I'm not very good at being cold, but I loved it because it was just a new experience, new people. Everyone had the same attitude, same spirit, just wanted to go along, meet new people, have a great time. So that's my first adventure. But since then, I have tried to focus more on projects for good, which has kind of gone alongside my career change as well. So doing sailing trips that are looking at the impact of plastics, in particular, on the ocean, also, as I mentioned earlier, the whale shark constellation trip, and just trying to use my platform to talk a lot as well about local local adventures and local travel, and the great things that you can do close to home that are also doing more good.

Karla: I’m interested lately in this idea of intrinsic and extrinsic motivation. I would guess yours, uh, intrinsically linked your motivations for all of these adventures. 

Soraya: Oh, I wonder, though, whether everyone starts out with intrinsic aims and motivations, and then over time, more and more of the external factors start to take over. Ah, that is such an interesting thing that I have never thought about. So I would love to say that all my motivations come from within, but I do think it changes over time. So the first trip was for me to see if travel and new experiences and new people was what was missing for me, because I just felt there was something missing, and I couldn't work out what it was. And so that first trip was, let's see if I actually like doing this. Maybe I'm just making this up in my head, and actually, I'll try it and I hate it, and I can then just cross it off the list. I didn't really share much about it, but I think I realised that just going on trips and experiencing the things on trips was great for me, but I just was driven to do something that was also using the privilege of being able to have those experiences, to tell stories and to hopefully share and engage people with things that they might not have been able to experience themselves, because we can't experience everything ourselves. 

But how can we also use that knowledge to inform decisions that we make? How can we make the world a better place? So that was kind of my focus on sustainability, writing and conservation, and the projects that I went on to do following that first trip were all tied up in that I have recently, last year, made a bit more of a commitment to be a bit more visible myself and to put myself out there a bit more as a person who is from a more diverse background, who, as you mentioned, isn't really seen as being. Being necessarily at the forefront of the outdoor community and the adventure community also massively underrepresented within sustainability circles as well. And I just have gone on and on and on about role modelling for women for so long, and then I realised that I wasn't putting my face out there, so no one was connecting the fact that I work in this space and I have a successful career doing what I'm doing, you can also do that. There is no reason why not. So I guess that's my external factor that is also working as I drive forward, and sometimes it's really uncomfortable. I've got to be honest, because I'm not a natural. Here is my face. Look at it, type of person, and I also don't really like talking a lot about myself, like I'd rather find out more about other people and promote what they're doing. So it's been a bit of an interesting journey. I'm more used to working behind the scenes. I am an extrovert, which I think is probably pretty clear, but I am usually the person working in the background, making things happen, rather than the person and kind of pushing myself forward. 

Karla: Can you talk to me about how important it is to be seen, and your work on role modelling?

Soraya: I can. So when I decided to change what I was doing for my work, so I had, I've had a really wiggly career. So I did law at university, and I absolutely hated it. I hated it so much I can't even explain, so when I left, I went and worked at an equine hospital as an assistant to the yard managers, which was an amazing job, because I love horses. I've ridden forever since I was five, completely different to law, though, obviously. 

And then from that role, I then moved because I'd always, I'd always been a writer, and I blogged when I was at uni, and I blogged when I was working at the equine hospital. And so then a job came up at horse and rider magazine, and I applied for that, and I got it, much to my amazement, and I worked as an equestrian journalist for four years, and it was what should have been my dream job. I mean, it was a dream job. I got to just write about horses all day. I'd quite regularly think, really, you're going to pay me to do this as a job? I'm not, are you sure? And I got to, I got to be outside all summer, because we would do most of our photo shoots in the summer, because obviously the weather is better for photographs and video. And then I would just write for most of the winter, all of these amazing tips. And I get to visit these top riders, and I did all the 2012 coverage of the Olympics and the Paralympics, and it was just like my dream job. 

But after a while, like I said, I felt like there was something missing, and I couldn't work out what it was. And I think I now know that it was the purpose. But what I did was I decided I needed to find out what I wanted to do. I was like now. Now I need to focus on my career, which, again, is funny, because I think you can change careers so many times during your lifetime. You don't need to decide at any point this is my career for the rest of my life. But anyway, that's what I thought I had to do. So I I decided that I was going to go back to uni to study sustainability for businesses, which was the one planet MBA, which was amazing. I was the best decision I could have ever, ever made when I was doing the one planet MBA at the in my final section of doing it, because I was studying part time, I did my dissertation, and what I chose to do for my dissertation was authentic leadership for women. And that was fascinating. I looked at loads of different things, from how women are perceived to how they act within certain roles I was looking at, particularly in middle management. 

But one of the big parts of that was role modelling and how in work environments, and this, this is true across the board, but in work environments, you actually look for managers that show the traits that you've previously seen in your managers. So it's a self perpetuating issue. Because if you've only ever had, say, middle aged white men who have a very dictator, this is very stereotypical, but have a very dictate a dictator like style, then that's what you will expect from managers moving forward. And you won't recognize other management styles, or it will be very difficult for you to change your perception of what a manager should be, which was really interesting within obviously women and role modeling. But it also applies across the board. So if you don't see people who look like you, if you're from a different background, you have a different ethnicity, you don't see someone who looks like you in that role, or doing an activity, or being comfortable within a space. 

As human beings, we, as a general rule, don't imagine ourselves doing it, and therefore we don't drive for it, because we don't see ourselves in that position, which is so interesting, because I've had this ongoing debate with myself as to why that hasn't applied to me and why it doesn't apply to loads of people, because there are obviously lots of people doing much more amazing things than I'm doing in fields where they don't see role models that look like them, and why is that? I don't know. I wonder if it's because they pick the aspects of the people to relate to, rather than it being about seeing somebody who looks like them. They see somebody who is passionate about X, or it's something to do with where the person comes from, or it, do you see what I mean? Or they just, they just don't care. Because I was wondering about this as well. I have never, ever been worried about moving into a space, and I think this goes back to your question about how your childhood is and how you're raised. Because my parents have never, ever said to me, you couldn't do that. They might say, Really, okay. Well, if that is really what you want to do, you are going to have to, like, find out how you're going to make that happen. And it's not going to be it's not necessarily going to be easy, but if that is really what you want to do, go for it, and I think that must also play into it to some degree. 

As somebody who is a female, a woman of colour, I felt like because I have the privilege to be asked and to to be asked to be in spaces. I do get asked because I have expertise in particular areas. I'm asked to appear, to do interviews, to talk about things I felt like I needed to use my privilege to role model essentially, because originally I would step aside because I wanted somebody who, in my mind, was more representative, who could talk more and on a deeper level about subjects, who, to my mind, was more worthy of being asked to step into that space. But I have recently, and this is quite a recent revelation to me, realised that me stepping aside doesn't mean that happens I step aside and they don't necessarily choose the people that I'm like, This person is amazing. You should definitely choose them. They might then go for somebody who is much more mainstream and is already out there and is already promoting so there's a balance there. I do try and pass the mic whenever I can, because I'm definitely not the right person to talk on all of the subjects I'm asked to talk on, but I do need to be doing more public facing stuff.

Karla: So let's talk about all the elements, because I think this is amazing, so it seeks to increase diversity outdoors. So why was that important to you to create a community like that?

Soraya: Actually, I set up All the Elements originally for selfish reasons. To be honest, I started doing the modeling, and putting myself out there talking more about all the challenges and issues that we need to address. And it's hard to do that. It's emotionally draining. It is a difficult space to stand in. There are going to be a lot of people that don't understand what you're doing and what you're what you're all about. It's lonely and it can be a slog. So I thought I know I will find the network that is for all the people who are working to increase diversity in the outdoors, because then I can connect to other people who are also working to create change, and I will feel more supported. But also we can Skill Share. So there's going to be things that I'm good at that I can help other people with, and there's going to be things that they're going to be great at that I know nothing about, and we can build this amazing network of people who can create change. I didn't want to make it. I just thought it would exist. So I started contacting people, and I would say, hey, so I'm just looking for this network. And I feel like you're someone who works a lot in the space. Okay, so I feel like you should know about it. Where is it? And this was looking across diversity areas as well. 

So All the Elements works with community group leaders who are working across all the different types of diversity in the UK, outdoors, UK specific, because there's a lot of us based information out there, which is amazing, but our situation is different. I mean, there are similarities, but there are differences. So it is UK focused, but it's across ethnicity, disability, things like body type, gender, sexuality, limited, financial means, age, any type of diversity that you can think of that is underrepresented by the mainstream. That's what all the elements does. So I was contacting people, and basically they all came back to me and said, Oh, no, I'm not aware of anything like that. It's a great idea, though. And I started to get this, like, at the time, I describe it as, like a sinking feeling, because I'm actually really busy, and I thought all of the signs are telling me that I should set this up, because it doesn't exist, but also I just wanted to volunteer for someone else. That's what I wanted to do, but it didn't exist, so I decided to set it up, and it has officially been a thing since August 2020, and I've been incredibly lucky to meet some really, really interesting, really passionate, amazing people through this process. And so I am incredibly grateful. 

So yeah, so originally it was very selfish. It does involve some aspects of role modelling. So what the all the elements website has on it, which has been a labor of love and continues to be built, is a directory of all of the community groups. Well, not all of them, because there are so many people working out there to create change, but a lot of community groups that are working to increase diversity across all of the different areas. So you can go to the directory, and you can say, well, actually, I want to know which are the groups that are working to support young people. And there you can find those groups, and we also have a resources library. So that includes podcast interviews with community group leaders. It includes film, written press, which is opinion, like why we need to increase diversity, as well as interviews with the community group leaders again, across all the different areas that they're working in, and also research. So it's a hub, and I add things almost every other day. I would add things every day, but it just makes more sense to batch them together to do.

And it amazes me every time that there are these other other groups doing other different things. I discovered that there was a black golfers community group only last week, and I was really excited about that. I was like, yes, now we need another section to put golf in. But there is, there's so many, there's so many people doing amazing things, and that's that's the amplifying, and that's the role modeling. And we also share what people are working on in on our socials, which is still, still growing. And I do a lot of work, I do a lot of calls with people working in the space. So I do a lot of informal connecting of people together when I know that people are working on different things, and they could be supporting each other and and working together to create more change too. And actually, that's one of the things that gets me the most excited when I have a chat to somebody and they mention something that somebody else has also mentioned to me, and I can bring them together.

Karla: That's incredible. So how did you create it? Did it come about quite organically? Or have you had to put a lot of effort into it? 

Soraya: It's a lot of work. I would love to say that it is, it's, I mean, it is growing organically, and it is building. And I've had some calls with some really big organisations recently who have asked me if I'm connected to other people within the space. And the honest truth is, is that as one person, I have more people contact me for calls than I not that I have then I have time for because I always fit them in, especially if they're community groups, because I really want to make sure that we're connecting everybody together, but I don't have to chase people to get them involved, if that makes sense, this is a group for the people who want to collaborate, so they are starting to come together. But how did it start? Lots and lots of calls. With people I kind of originally thought, and this is actually, I've been thinking about doing a podcast about this side of things. So I'm really excited that you asked about this, because it's often missed off of the questions is the hard bit we skip to celebrating the bit where it's like, Oh yeah, it's going really well. And this is happening, and this is happening, but we don't talk about the challenging bits and the bits that we did wrong. So the bit that I did wrong is I thought, well, I don't really have time to do this in a very active way. So what I will do is I will set up a mailing list, and I will basically ask people to join as members. It's free membership, and they will just, obviously, just send me their news and their updates from what they want all the time. And I'll just put together like a newsletter, and I'll just send it out to all the people who've signed up to the mailing list. And it will be like, really, really low maintenance and really easy. And now I look back and I think, Oh, my God, what was I thinking? Honestly, I must have, like, lost my mind. Nobody knew who I was. Nobody knew anything about what I wanted to do, and, like, my vision of bringing people together, all it was, was a web page that I was directing people to, and people were rightly suspicious, like another thing that somebody set up that they just want me to sign up for, and they want me to put work in, because they want me to send them stuff so that they can put stuff out. 

I had a really great chat with Phil Young, who does a lot of work on diversity in the outdoors. He's like, I always refer to him in my head, and not usually out loud, as the kind of like, Man Behind diversity in the outdoors, because he, he's working with so many different people doing so many different things, but you he you do see him out there, but you don't see him out there as much. He's always amplifying other people. And he said to me, he was very generous with his time. And he said to me, hmm, you know, you've got to provide value first, and you've really got to put out there what you're all about. And then people will start to get it. And then, and then the community will build, which then started a long process of individual one on one calls with people working in the space explaining to them what all the elements was about, asking them. Because this is also the thing is, this is something that I wanted, but I I only wanted to set it up if other people wanted it as well, and if it was a value. So then checking with the community group leaders that it definitely was something that was a value. What did they want from this sort of community? What were they working on? And then how? How could we start connecting people together and kind of letting people get to know me a bit once I decided to take it in that direction and start building the online directory that's free for everybody to look at and the resources that are free for people to use. 

There was a shift, and it started this slow build of our community. So building a community takes an actual community, rather than a mailing list. Takes time, and it takes energy. It requires a lot of patience, a lot of putting yourself out there to get it to the place where it feels supportive and they believe in what you're doing, and they can see you're going to be around for a long time and that you don't want anything from them. And that was, that's where we still are, like, I'm still doing that. I still do call several calls a week with different with different people. I love it. It's definitely where I get my energy from. I love talking to people about what they passionate about, and finding out what they working on, and then, as I say, connecting them with other people who might be able to help them or support them or amplify what they're doing. I get psyched about it. And I tell people all the time, we're not interested in duplicating effort. I'm not interested in putting an all the elements brand on everything. I want all the elements website to be a signpost to all the places where good stuff's happening. Just want there to be one central place where people can go to find those things. And that is my vision for it. So as soon as anybody says to me, Oh, you mentioned you were thinking working on x while I'm already doing it, I'm like, Great, yeah, I will just, I will just link out to you that makes you very happy, yeah? And we'll talk about what you're doing. I will work on the next thing, because there's always more work to do.

Karla: Yeah, it sounds like it takes so much energy and creativity to create this kind of community where, where do you get your strength from? What pushes you continuously to do this?

Soraya: Yeah, how do I keep my energy? I think that what drives me is that it's not a project for. Uh, me, and this goes back to the purpose idea it exists to support the community group leaders and the people who are working to create change. People tell me it is something that doesn't exist or hasn't previously existed, and that it's helpful and useful to them. And I have spoken to people who have said to me that they felt very disengaged, or started to feel disengaged with what they're doing, and knowing that there's a community of people who an inclusive group of people who want to create change has really helped them, and I don't want anyone to feel like that. I feel like everyone who is working, who has the desire and is working to make the world a better place. I feel like they should be they should feel supported, and they should feel like they're on the right track. So I think that's what it is for me. I think everyone needs to to know that it's going to be okay, and we're all connected, and we're all driving, we're all driving in the same direction.

Karla: And this is a big question, so feel free not to want to answer it. But what do you think will increase diversity outdoors? I mean, All the Elements is incredible in an ideal world like, what would increase diversity? 

Soraya: I mean, that's a huge question. I feel like there isn't one answer. And I think everybody would like there to be one answer, because it would make it much easier. But like everything from the perspective of anything that's complicated. So if you, for example, if you look at climate change, or you look at plastic pollution, or you look at any of the big challenges that we're facing, it's multi pronged. So diversity in the outdoors involves everything from role modeling and access and things like the hiring practices of people within the outdoor sector, which then goes into things like systemic, systemic problems and bias right the way through to things that would help people who have physical disabilities to be able to access particular parts of the outdoors, so like actual hardware. So I think it's really like changing opinions and changing perceptions. So yeah, it's too big a question for me to answer, and I'm definitely not an expert on all those individual things, but basically everyone needs to be looking at what they can do themselves, to help and support through whatever they're doing, and then if everyone is making the changes that they can make, then hopefully everything will become more accessible and more diverse.

Karla: Let's talk about your role, because this is another role like blew my mind. You lead operations at expedition, is that? Right?

Soraya: Yeah, yeah. So, Expedition x, expedition, okay, yeah, actually. So that's a great adventure story. So I decided when I handed in my dissertation, that I wanted to do an adventure after I handed it in, and there was a trip that was being promoted to canoe on the Mississippi River, and it started like two days after my dissertation, hand in date. So I decided to go, and it was run by adventurer Dave cornwaite and also Emily Penn, who is now my boss at x expedition, and she is co founder and director, and I met her, and she kind of said to me at the end of the trip, like, you know, would you be interested in volunteering? And I said, Yes. And then now, however many years later, it is five, almost five years later, I work for X expedition four days a week as Operations Manager, my job is very different now to what it was before COVID, obviously, and we can't do it safely until the whole global situation comes down. So my job previously involved, basically I supported everyone else in the team in making sure that the trips could happen. So it was everything from and supporting recruitment and contracts and bookkeeping, applying for scientific permits, and working out how to get out the boat, basically everything travel to make these voyages happen, which is super exciting, like, it's a really cool job, and I get to meet amazing women COVID. 

Since COVID hit, we've been working really closely with our ambassador community, because we have women that have sailed with us since 2014 and we also now have women who've taken part in our virtual voyages. So we're building this Well, we've already built it.

We have our own social network where our amazing ambassadors can connect with each other, and we run online events on all different aspects of plastic pollution and how to create change. Yeah, and I still do things like bookkeeping and contracts and all of that side of things too, but, yeah, it just looks a bit different, but it's an amazing it's an amazing project, and it encourages this multi disciplinary, multi backgrounds, multi nationality, cross learning and cross collaboration, which is something that I get really excited about. And I feel like I've said that a lot today, I get really excited about lots of things. Also, it is a really great way to create change on plastics, because the women come on our voyages, they learn more about the problem. They do citizen science when we are sailing, which feeds into global studies. And then they and they learn from other people's experiences and stories and from our local events that we run in all the places that we visit. And then they come back home, and they go back into their communities and into their networks and workplaces and use what they've learned, which is basically a process of amplifying their understanding of how their skills can create change, because they've already come on board as these amazing women. So it's, it's often just about them working out how they can make an impact, looking at all the solutions that there are, which there are, you know, 1000s of different solutions to tackling plastic and then go back into their communities and doing it, and then coming back and telling us about it and connecting with other ambassadors who are creating change. And it's just a big, big, amazing movement.

Karla: Incredible. And why was it important for them to be an all female cruise?

Soraya: Ah, so that's a great question. So there's a number of different reasons. Women are underrepresented in STEM and we are all about doing this citizen science and connecting with the scientific side of things. They're underrepresented in sailing as well. We also have the chemicals that you find in plastic and the toxic so it's about plastics and toxics in the ocean that you find. These persistent chemicals. They have different impacts on women's bodies than they do on men's bodies, their hormone inhibitors, their endocrine disruptors. Men can't get rid of these chemicals once they're the persistent chemicals, but women do, and the way that they do is by giving them to their unborn children. Basically, that's how the body is very clever. Actually, it's how female bodies clear toxics from their system. Is like passing them, passing them to the unborn child, and then, like, cleansing the system that way. So there are things that are specifically related to women, and also there's just something about having all of these amazing women on board and having an all female crew, and I can't even explain it, but the atmosphere is just different, and our professional crew are always all female as well. We have, we actually have an all female team on land team, but that's not the land side of it is not on purpose, because we run on land events, and they are for men and women. It is just the sailing voyages and the voyages themselves that are women only, and it's just this really bad ass network of amazing women. And yeah, it's not about, it's not about excluding men. It's about it all coming back to amplification in this podcast. It's not about excluding men at all. We all have a really important role to play, but it's about amplifying women and connecting women with other women working to create change.

Karla: Incredible. Yeah, that's what I say about the podcast. It's not man bashing or man excluding. It's about celebrating women and women, supporting women, exactly, exactly. What's on the horizon for you next? What's your next adventure? Because I think COVID is other restrictions easing a bit in the UK now?

Soraya: So that's a good that is a good question, and I think I am trying to not get too caught up in planning, because if COVID has taught us anything, it's that we never know what's going to happen next. But I am continuing to walk sections of the southwest coast path with my mum and the dog, so that's something that I'm doing. I am also potentially looking at a plan to go in not not in the immediate future, but to go to South America, hopefully on a boat, because I don't want to fly and have a little look at the National Park, because I have a friend who would also be traveling from Canada, and we can meet there to do some slow travel and explore local projects that are happening in that I was also planning to do a cycling trip on my bike, because I built a bike, and I was going to do a bamboo bike, and I was going to do a cycling trip on that. But I think that might have to wait, because originally that was going to be in Europe, and I think the borders are going to make things very complicated, unless I just stay in one country.

Karla: Last question, Where can people find you if they'd like to get in touch? 

Soraya: Ah, yes. So where people can find me, they can find me on so I have a website, which is where my blog is, which is where I write about travel, but I also write about other things I'm interested in, and that is Soraya dot Earth, if you're interested in following me on social media, I'm sorry at Earth on pretty much every social media channel, but I'm probably most active on Instagram and Twitter. If you're interested in all the elements, the website is all the elements.co and the social media on Instagram and Twitter is all the elements underscore, and it's really easy to find ways to contact me through all of those places.

Karla: Oh, amazing. Thanks so much for coming on the podcast.

Soraya: Thank you for having me. This has been great.

Karla: Thanks so much to Soraya for coming on the podcast. She was so honest, which is really refreshing. And she also is doing so much for diversity outdoors in the UK. After we stopped recording, we carried on talking for well over an hour, and we only stopped because we were both hungry. We aligned on so much. And I'm really glad I found her and she agreed to come on this podcast, definitely go follow Soraya all the elements and X expedition, I will see you all next week.